Apologetics Ministries
[Apologetics Encyclopedia of Bible Verses -- get your answers here! Look up by person's name, Scripture cite, or keyword search]
[What's New!]
[Book Reviews and Bookstore]
[Donate to the Ministry]
[Challenge to Critics]
[Mission Statement]
[Contact Us]
[Why Critics of the Bible Do Not Deserve Benefit of the Doubt]

[Is it "Un-Christian" to Engage in Satire?]

[More Sam Stuff]

Search
PicoSearch
Support Us

CrossDaily.com
Awesome
Christian
Sites
Click Here
Vote For
This Site

Christian Top Sites
Christian Top Sites

Print out flyers for your church or school.

Tekton Logo vertical
Get the entire Tekton site on CD or zipfile. Get a stripped-down copy of this page.

Sam's Swan Song

A Critical Look at Some Major Items on "Cygnus' Study -- Debunking the Bible" Page
James Patrick Holding

[Flying Credentials] [ Alleged Contradictions] [Update: A Response from Sam] [Update: The Jesus Sam-inar]

By now I am well used to confronting the incompetent; what makes it more fun is when they are incompetent and take significant steps to show it off. Such an one is the subject of this article, one named Sam Gibson, who has his own Web page entitled "Cygnus' Study -- Debunking the Bible", which a recent letter-writer asked me to look into. (Hey, Sam, if you are reading this -- I owe you copy of my book on Mormonism, because it's all your fault! Figure that one out!)

Sam is really a load of laughs. He has all sorts of material lifted uncritically from Burton Mack, the Jesus Seminar, etc. and accepts it without question; these are things that we have worked upon already and won't get into here. What makes this writer particularly amusing is the credentials he so proudly sports as a way of showing us that he is qualified to do what he does. "People ask me what qualifies me to discuss such issues. See my documentation for yourself!" one part of the index page proudly proclaims. And what do we find? Our "Reverend" Sam Gibson offers us a copy of an ordination paper showing him to have the title of "Minister" in the "Universal Life Church". Now, who are these people? Are we to quake in our boots at the words of an ordained minister, on the subject of the Bible?

Guess again. Poor Sam apparently doesn't think that any of us will check out those credentials. I have. And I can say this: The brains that the scarecrow got from the Wizard of Oz have more relevance and validity than any piece of paper from this "Universal Life Church". This little church that could has won a few court cases to get itself recognized as a valid religion (though of late, they are on the losing end). I won't say much about it, other than that it seems slightly health-and-wealthish, and also seems to center around the notion that the private pursuit of happiness is the utmost goal...and then, there is this certain perfectly-postmodern tendency to pass out ordinations to anyone for free, and diplomas to anyone as long as they pay a small fee, and maybe answer a few questions correctly. In other words, these are credentials that are worth exactly what, by now, you think they are: NOTHING. I am reminded of an anecdote I read of a candidate that was entered into a local political race by a sponsor, did no campaigning, made no speeches, and still won the election. Only afterwards was it revealed that the candidate was actually a mule. By the same token, I suspect that even a mule could be an ordained minister in this church that will ordain anyone, for they have been known to ordain dogs and dead people unwittingly, and several of the inmates at my former place of work at the prison proudly (or laughingly) sported their "credentials" from ULC and told me of how they used them as a vehicle for evading taxation.

As it happens, too, one of those inmates had a copy of a book published by these folks at ULC, and the cover says it all: "We will ordain anyone for life, without question of your faith." The booklet I read was dated from 1994, and while I doubt if things have changed much in the intervening years, what I found tells us enough. Care for a doctorate degree from ULC in, oh, Metaphysics or Divinity? Just send 'em a "donation" of 20-40 bucks, and its yours! How about that doctorate you've always wanted in common law? That'll run you 295 bucks, circa 1994. The degrees in religion and in philosophy of religion are a little more demanding: You pay a fee, but you also have to read some material and take a test they send along. If you get 75% of the questions correct (Do they even know or care if you cheat? -- is there such a thing as they see it?), the degree is yours. Don't you wish degrees in nuclear physics were that simple? You could be out creating new theorems and running nuclear power plants in no time. The booklet even comes with a little cutout card on the back you can stick in your wallet identifying yourself as a minister, and you can buy a "clergy" sticker for your car for only $1.25. (Oh, yeah, and a certificate of sainthood is also available for 5 bucks, "with approval". At least they have some standards.) So it goes: Start your own church, just add water.

Which leads to the ultimate point, which again, is this: Sam Gibson's "credentials" are not worth the paper they're printed on in terms of really and truly understanding what the Bible is all about; it says absolutely nothing in terms of knowing anything about the social, literary, historical, or any other background of the Bible; at best what he has done is post a worthless mail-order ordination that will fool the ignorant into thinking he has actually studied the topic further than K through 5 Sunday School lessons and uncritically selecting the most outrageous possible theories in Biblical scholarship to present as certified fact. And while he will apparently admit that the credentials are a joke if asked (you have to dig up a piece of correspondence in his mailbag to find out!), I think Sam knows well enough that most people aren't going to go to a lot of trouble to investigate. If the credentials ARE meant as a joke, then don't post them, period -- or else post them wearing funny nose glasses!

But Gibson's lack of quality training will become quite clear as we take a further look at some specific items Sam has to offer. First, we will look at a few alleged "contradictions" -- Sam has about 70 listed (including the Golden Duh Award-Winner "Who Killed Saul" selection; when a critic picks this one to highlight, I know we have a real ringer on our hands!), and less than a dozen are new to this page. Second will be a selective examination of a series of over 150 questions Sam throws out in a challenge to all of us to "convert" him -- so silly that I have moved the answer now to my new tektoonics.com site. Yep, Sam really counts on us not having a lot of time, doesn't he? Fortunately, I have quite a lot of time to spend on this, and I'd like to answer those questions -- if for no other reason that to show that Sam's little world is so fantastic that it might qualify Disney World's next theme-section, and as usual, for our mission, assure the reader that the likes of Sam pose no threat whatsoever to an informed Christian faith. Anyway, to look at these things, follow the links above.

|

Conclusion

The section of questions closes with quotes from celebrities and science-fiction and fantasy writers -- following the post-modern line that celebrity makes one an authority on anything they set their mind to! I'd like to note just one of these in closing:

There were people out there tonight telling you that [God and] they love you. If they love you so much, where have they been all your lives? Thank you for coming to our church tonight. -Marilyn Manson, concert in Salem, OR 1/19/97

That's the word from one of the greatest minds of our century, indeed. Where have they been? Well, far too many have been irresponsible; but many more have given their lives and deeds over to the service of the Gospel, including serving the poorest of the poor, feeding the hungry, and so on -- things that I doubt if the likes of Manson would stoop to, without a guaranteed contract and a limosuine. None of this guarantees the truth of what anyone believes, of course: It only proves their personal sincerity. Even so, who is Manson, or Frank Herbert, or Sam Gibson, that we should believe them? These are men thoroughly unqualified and uncritical in their acceptance of anything that contradicts Christian belief. Gibson we have now shown to be yet another in that long line of those proud of their incompetence and willing to show it off. Our challenge, as always, is the same: Get serious and play with the big boys, or else get out of the discussion, take your irrelevant credentials, and never darken the door of a true believer again.

|

Swan Song II: Confused Cygnals

If it isn't obvious by now, ticking people off -- especially those of the skeptical persuasion -- is my specialty. And it seems I did a good job on this one. After one of our readers pointed out to Sam Gibson that I had put together an article on his page, I received from him a copy of an article entitled "Released From the Holding Cell: A Response to the Apologist J. P. Holding". Not a bad pun, there, but so much for all further associations of my pseudonym with imprisonment being original. And Sam hasn't updated it since 1998; it still has a very old URL for me.

In a sense the content of Gibson's response is surprising. Usually a skeptic replying to items posted here will make some effort to address the hard data of the case in the midst of wasted space; even Skeptic X, who is the most masterful of the lot at decorating attempted substance with obvious polemic, doesn't implicitly insult you without at least some fumbling attempt to show that he understands Hebrew better than a coterie of Semitic scholars. But that's not the case this time. Here, the response barely even touched on hard-data issues. In his response (such as it is) Sam reduces himself to puerile pettiness -- complaining, for example, that Tekton AM is "one of the slowest loading sites on the net -- due to poor design". (I'll buy that, at the time it was written -- in terms of page design, I'm a neophyte, sure. But it's strange how the Net connection at my local library had no problem ringing the whole index page up in a minute in a half or less, and while I have had a few similar comments from readers, it seemed that most of you were not having any trouble. Anyway, that problem seems to be fixed now. Possible suggestions to the Gibsonite: Use my new "text" option. Buy a better system than that TRS-80 you're on. Learn what "multitasking" can do for you. Do something else during the load --like maybe solid research on the Bible.)

He complains about my satire, which apparently hit a little too hard in the gut and on target, especially protesting at my estimation of him as "ignorant" -- which, remember, is a word I use not as ad hominem, but to express certified and proven fact. He inserted the traditional pontification that I was lucky to be living in a country where we had freedom of speech. (Did I say I wasn't thankful? Note that Sam, in making this comment, implicitly assumes that I am in support of all forms of censorship, book-burning, etc. -- my view on the matter is actually far more complicated, but it is certainly a convenience for the skeptic to tar with the same old brush. We'll see he does this again later.) He also complains: "The only thing that Holding forgot to do was to let me know that he had stopped by and attempt (sic) to save me."

Okay, let's make something clear. I didn't forget to do that -- I intentionally bypassed it. I'm into defense of the truth on behalf of the terrified sheep, not evangelism of lost causes too incompetent to realize that they are incompetent. I won't tell them they are tools of Satan, because Im a preterist who thinks Satan is now bound; but even if I didn't think that, I'd say if Satan has any sense at all he'll distance himself from the likes of Sam Gibson as quickly as possible, lest his reputation be ruined. I do write for those who write to me and ask me to evaluate this or that person's work, and I don't really give two pounds of hay whether the person being asked about knows about it or not. And were it not for requests submitted to me, I would no more waste my intellect and time with the likes of Sam Gibson than I would (in the words of the immortal Dr. Doom) use a cannon to slay a flea.

That touches on the substance of another of Sam's major complaints, in his reply and in a couple of letters following. In what seems a case of deja vu a la Skeptic X, Sam "invites" me to "come out from behind (my) HTML editor" and "participate in the online forum at (Sam's) website to deal with the issues of apologia" -- and later charged me with "cowardice" for refusing to do so. To which I say: What, again? What is it with these skeptics and their online forums? What makes it any less "cowardly" to want to continue interchange on a Web page level? And this time there is no excuse, for Sam at least knows how to do a Web page and has one up and running. I'll say it again: I don't do forums with skeptics. Skeptical forums are filled with "master debaters" who think that polemic alone counts as argument and that stacking questions atop questions in order to overwhelm their opponent (who, unlike them, having a life to lead, does not have the time or the resources to provide every answer within the expected timeframe, i.e., instantly) equates with victory. I've come halfway to the "forum" by being on a public page; these days I also have my way on TheologyWeb, though Sam came these and got banned for profanity within minutes. I will debate on my terms only, terms which allow for the presentation of a full and cohesive argument, backed up with data collected with patience and care from primary sources and scholars in the field, rather than derived verbatim from crude secondary sources like Ken's Guide to the Bible. Those of you like Sam who challenge me to "come out of the bushes" or what have you apparently fail to notice that I am standing on a vast plain already, and that there is no reason why the debate cannot continue on the same terms -- other than that, perhaps, of the supposed (am)bush that you have prepared on your own comfortable, security-blanket turf, where your mistakes will only be seen by those who love you enormously and think no more critically than you do.

That said, it is no surprise that Sam spends nearly a quarter of his reply complaining about my public exposure of his "credentials" from the Universal Life Church -- credentials which, if you bother reading the fine print on a far corner of his page, he will admit are just a joke; but don't tell that to the average and casual reader who has better things to do than read every jot and tittle. I'll admit that I'm a proponent of the principle of caveat emptor, but I am also not without sympathy for the "Consumer Reports" position that anyone presenting themselves in any capacity of authority or knowledge is bound by the dictums of personal responsibility to represent themselves clearly for what they are. A "doctor", who posts his "credentials", whom you go on to trust; who goes on to botch your surgery and turn you into a hermaphrodite when you were expecting an appendectomy, is not relieved of his burden by saying (as Sam does of his case) that the credentials are presented "to show that we have stood by as a civilization for thousands of years and listened to men (and fed them) because they told us that they were some sort of conduit for their god"/some sort of conduit for experienced medical knowledge. To that explanation I say: "Nice recovery! Too bad it smells like cow chips!" I don't believe it for one minute, but even granting that it is true, who is thereby responsible for those who don't "get the point" and assume that Sam is a bona fide minister who thereby knows better what he is talking about? If it is a lesson by Sam, then it is a very poorly taught lesson, akin to teaching a mathematics class without using the plus and minus signs. I'll grant that to fall for such a ploy is a sign of ignorance, and many die from ignorance; but that makes the original conduct no less reprehensible. (Incidentally, Sam goes on to say that as a Christian, I am "one who would continue to support these conduits" he refers to. I would? Don't you just love these vague, circular, bigoted, stereotypical, and unsupported generalizations?)

My suggestion, then, was that Sam either ought to remove the credentials, or else post them with funny-nose glasses -- figuratively meaning, of course, make the "lesson" more obvious if that is indeed what it is. Of this he says: "Since we find many such images of what appears to be 'funny nose and glasses' at (Tekton AM), are we to conclude that (Tekton AM) is meant as a joke?" Not quite -- it should be noted who is wearing the "funny nose glasses" in each case. My most humor-oriented apologia icons are reserved for what was once called the Rogue's features -- profiles of the incompetent upon whom I firmly affix funny nose and glasses, with tongue planted firmly in cheek. Of course, I would hardly expect someone who thinks that posting ULC credentials and thinking that that suffices as some sort of lesson would comprehend the subtleties of my humor. I suspect from this, and the fact that people like Marilyn Manson and others who bang their heads on musical instruments for a living are quoted as authorities, that this is someone who thinks that jokes about flatulence are the height of comedic design.

My largest section by far, answering and discussing some of the "questions" posed by Sam's friend Hiero the Elephant, Sam simply dismisses by saying he is "not concerned with dealing with (my) answers here" because I have shown that I am "not interested in dialogue of any sort" (as if Hiero P.'s questions indicate a willingness for that in the first place -- more likely is that Sam finally realizes just how embarrassing and silly many of these "questions" were and has no desire to burst the bubble by actually defending them). This follows with the aforementioned polemical rant challenging me to come over to Sam's forum, and then a word of semi-sarcastic thanks for putting Sam "in some very fine company" in the former Rogue's Gallery -- "great thinkers", as he describes them, like Dan Barker (who admits he coasted through seminary), Steven Carr (the man who thinks ancient people were too stupid to block a river), Earl Doherty (admittedly my most educated skeptical Rogue, which may not say much), Lloyd Graham (! - most of the others are bad enough, but if that's a "great thinker" in Sam's estimation, then civilization truly is doomed), Jeff Lowder (mighty quiet these days, especially since I leapfrogged him by interviewing Josh McDowell), Hyam Maccoby (he who turns Paul into a thought-criminal via classic circular-reasoning exercises), Dennis McKinsey (!! - no comment needed; this guy thinks 19th-century sources are still authoritative, and later scholarship is a cover-up), Thomas Paine (what did I tell ya'll?), John Shelby Spong (if it concerns sex, he likes it), and Farrell Till (!!! - definitely no comment needed). Of course that list also includes the likes of Revilo P. Oliver (Nazi Christ-myther), Wayne Harrington (purple-cloud pusher), J. B. McPherson ("God is an alien!"), Huyamunn Masoud (professional storyteller and other-person impersonator), and Paige Turner (crucifixion conspiracy theorist who believes that ancient Romans knew modern medical techniques), so if Sam wants to argue for honor by association on the list, who am I to disagree? The fact is that I have tagged each of these persons to varying degrees with mistakes ranging from minor boo-boos to outright competence, and if Sam really wants to play dialogue, let him pick up the Chicken Challenge and defend each of these heroes of his from my barbs. Presently they are bleeding from far too many open wounds to heal on their own, and what little reply I have had thus far is much the same in nature as Sam's -- nine parts complaining and obfuscation, one part data-reply, and thirty parts avoiding the issues at hand. I'm sure most would be grateful for the help, and I'd suggest they get moving, because I will not be standing still while they hastily apply the tourniquets.


|

Swan Song III: The Jesus Sam-inar

And another one bites the dust...

Sam apparently got tired of clipping his toenails recently, and decided to address a few of the critics of his heroes down at the Jesus Seminar, including yours truly. Not that what he says amounts to much. He addresses his ire towards one very short section in my very long, four-part project on Harmonization, a combination refutation of anti-harmonizers and certain principles of the Jesus Seminar. What he addresses, actually, are some summary principles in which I very generally address (and recast) the seven "pillars of scholarly wisdom" the Seminar adheres to. What Sam does not address is the real meat of the project, wherein I show just how ridiculous these principles would be if they were applied to our four Lincoln biographies. That's where the real arguments lie, but Sam's toenails apparently caught up to him before he had time to read the whole thing.

At any rate, what's Sam got to say this time? After offering the obligatory insults and such (None of them particularly original, but what to be expected from the charter member of the Beavis and Butthead Bible Study Society?), and expressing some of his personal confusion over my addressing of two topics (harmonization, the Seminar) in one essay set (hint: Sam would have figured out the continuity if he had kept reading), we get down to the actual material at hand. Let's begin with my account of:

General Assumption #1. If it is only mentioned in one Gospel, it is doubtful that it happened. This is nothing more than an argument from silence at its core. Of course, the corollary and logical next steps would be that if it is mentioned in 2 Gospels, it may have happened; 3, it probably did happen, and if it is in all four, it definitely happened; so that would mean that the Resurrection definitely happened! But of course, critics never take these next steps because it upsets the apple cart.

Sam replies, rather interestingly:

What we are dealing with here is attestation. Holding doesn't argue against this presupposition as much as he tries to apply this very reasonable rule to a situation that contains conflicting evidence. Let's read what the rule that Seminar uses when searching for historical information:
Sayings or parables that are attested in two or more independent sources are likely to be old. Note that the rule is neither categorical nor absolute. It is simply a guide on how to evaluate evidence. This same rule is used in courtrooms around the world. Corroborated evidence is more likely believed than evidence which rests on its own authority.

This is rather a short response, but rather long on naivete, and that's in part because Sam apparently didn't take the time to see how I worked out my objections to the Semimar's rule. In the main, I pointed out that several facts were found in only one of the four Lincoln bios; yet who would chuck them merely on that basis? In terms of the claim that the rule is not "categorical or absolute," perhaps this is so as far as application, but that is beside the point. It is a silly rule, completely arbitrary, and is never applied at all to secular works of history, not even with regard to multiple witnesses (like those for Socrates). At the same time, the rule is not used in courtrooms at all, in the same sense that it is used by critics like the Seminar. If a witness testifies to A and B, and another testifies to B and C, this is not taken to mean by itself that A and C do not have sufficient evidence behind them. This only happens if A and C are incompatible in their occurrence, or with B. Put it this way: Additional witnesses gives more reason to believe, but fewer witnesses does not equate with less reason, and this is where critics like the Seminar too often abuse this criteria.

General Assumption #2: If it reflects the needs, likely questions, or problems of the early church, it is doubtful that it was said or done by Jesus. Instead, the words and deeds were written back into the Gospel records. In the words of the Seminar: "Sayings and parables expressed in 'Christian' language are the creation of the evangelists or their Christian predecessors...The Christian community developed apologetics statements to defend its claims and sometimes attributed such statements to Jesus." (pp. 24-5) No matter how fancy you say it, the bottom line is : The Gospels writers were liars. They invented sayings of Jesus to address problems in the church.

Here, Sam accuses me of using the word "liar" because "it invokes the proper emotional response from his less than critical readers." And he's right. No matter how many ways they spin it, or cover it up by referring to "creative communities" and so on, the Seminar is accusing the Gospel writers of lying and fabrication, and no amount of further circomlocution by Sam is going to change that fact. He goes on to add: "The truth of the matter is that the gospels were written with an agenda and the Jesus Seminar realizes the need to see through this smokescreen to get to what is likely to be historical." In response we challenge Sam to read, address, and refute Glenn Miller's item on this subject. No more needs to be said, for a neophyte like Sam, who is unable to recognize that the Seminar has its own biases, deserves no further response from our quarter.

General Assumption #3: If it reflects something that was already being taught in Judaism or some other philosophy at the time, it it doubtful that it was said or done by Jesus. The Seminar puts it this way: "Words borrowed from the fund of common lore or the Greek scriptures are often put on the lips of Jesus." (p. 23) This is rather a stringent demand to place upon any literary work. To their credit, the Seminar does not ALWAYS say that such quotes are invented; they admit that at times Jesus may have used common lore and proverbs when speaking. (Actually, that Jesus did use common lore and such should be taken as authenticating the Gospel records; but in the wild world of the Seminar, this is not the case.) Skeptics often take this argument a bit further by asserting that elements of the Gospels (the virgin birth, for example) were borrowed from other religions or fables.

In reply here, Sam baldly asserts that "this is true is simply common sense" and repeats the standard line about Scripture-searching Christians who made up "gospel fictions" from the OT (see my response to Randel Helms on this). Also, speaking of Matthew, Sam makes the rather bigoted observation: "There is absolutely no reason to suspect that a Galilean peasant would be so familiar with Jewish scripture that he would be able to quote Zechariah or Jeremiah before there was a fixed Jewish canon." He's wrong on several counts: Matthew was no mere "Galilean peasant" but a tax collector, among the most educated and literate in Jewish society; but even without the identification, Matthew's gospel shows every evidence of having been written by one who was familiar with rabbinical teaching techniques, and is considered widely to be a work of literary craftsmanship. Finally, Sam should know that having a "fixed Jewish canon" had/has nada to do with being able to quote a prophet. Remember (as the Seminar tends to forget), this is an era of strong and accurate oral tradition, of memory and mnemonics. Even the lowest "Galilean peasant" would be likely to spout Scripture more accurately than Sam could even with three KJVs and a concordance at hand.

Finally Sam adds the backhand that "the question is not whether or not the gospel authors used other religions or fables in their stories. The question is how much did they use and from which other religions or fables." Actually the question has been asked and answered in the negative, only there are certain souls who haven't caught on to the joke yet. For the premier refutation of this idea, see Glenn Miller's item here. (Started working on it yet, Sam?)

General Assumption #4: If it has a miraculous element, it didn't happen.

Sam says, "Holding does not attempt to refute this and so we will pass over it." He's right -- such obvious historiographical bigotry/presumption requires no refutation.

General Assumption #5: The Gospel writers added to or expanded upon Jesus' sayings with their own interpretations or comments, or attributed their own statements and/or stories to the Gospels. This is easy to assume, but difficult to prove. The Jesus Seminar creates a variety of scenarios to explain how certain parts of the Gospels have been thusly altered, generally using elements of Assumptions 2 and 3.

Sam asserts to the contrary that "this is quite easy to prove" but he provides no specific examples, only a generalized mishmash reply. He's going to have to do a lot better than that (as well as refute my samples exposing such theorizing in this article before I give him any credit.

General Assumption #6: Many saying of Jesus are invented for the occasion. (p. 30) The Seminar applies this mainly to non-teaching words of Jesus. For example, where Jesus exorcises a demon and says, "Come out of him!" this is regarded as just being storytellers' license to fit the situation. (This is really rather petty - and may we ask what one does say to a demon one is trying to expel? "Upsy-daisy, demon!" perhaps?) It is also said that such sayings could not have been transmitted orally, in the context of a larger story, so they cannot be relied upon - ignoring the possibility that the story itself may have been transmitted in writing, or that oral tradition can indeed be reliable to the required extent!

Sam only replies, "The reason for this should be obvious and the response to it is quite simple. Oral traditions do not preserve little sayings like the one mentioned above but remember the general idea of a story." Actually, oral traditions may indeed preserve such little sayings, but that isn't my main point; my main point is the Seminar's authoritative pettiness is ranking such sayings at all. It's perfectly fine to pass them over, but the egos at the Seminar just can't seem to resist showing off! At any rate, their criteria here, like many of the others, is bare assumption/presumption.

General Assumption #7: Only sayings and actions that fit a specified portrait of Jesus are authentic. The Seminar has a host of criteria in this regard which we will not recount here. However, it is noteworthy that one admonition to their members is to beware of finding a Jesus that is congenial to them - is this not what they are doing when they set arbitrary criteria beforehand? (Obviously, for them, this wipes out all of Jesus' claims to divinity.)

Sam complains that this "is about as vague as it could possibly be" but once again, had he read the remainder of the Lincoln project, he would have seen exactly how my response is put into application. It is quite easy for my fictional Dr. Futz to sound authoritative saying that the Lincoln bios were written by the 20th century civil rights movement to canonize their hero; so likewise the Seminar can easily dismiss whatever does not suit them. Sam then says that my point "assumes knowledge of the scholars' motives and intentions. Since we know that Holding is not omniscient, we can completely disregard this statement as the ranting of someone with a preconceived idea of who and what the members of the Seminar are." Preconceived, is it? It's not necessary: With Robert Funk, the Seminar founder, offering his own raves about the need to come up with a new Jesus unlike the one "fundamentalists" prefer, it doesn't require any "preconceptions" to make this assessment -- the Seminar offers enough grist for the public mill!

I'll close this by noting something Sam is probably unaware of: Opposition to the Seminar is not just the province of raving fundies, but comes from many quarters: From the likes of Luke T. Johnson, Richard Hays, John P. Meier, Jacon Neusner, and now also Philip Jenkins, and others of middle-road persuasion who recognize that the Seminar's methodology is a tragic farce. If Sam wants to defend his heroes, let's see him do so against these guys -- and not against those who he thinks are easy targets. But then, to do that, Sam is going to have to move out of a higher rank of scholarship than reading Where's Waldo? books...and as we all know by now, we may as well expect Martha Stewart to invite Pigpen of the Peanuts gang over for tea and cookies.


Go Home!