John W. Loftus:

Trapped in Theology Web!


Will he leave ... or won’t he?



You, your arguments, and your God are not worth my time anymore.”

--John W. Loftus a.k.a. “Doubting John” is an online debate forum.  On May 26, 2005, under the name of “Doubting John”, John W. Loftus of Angola, Indiana began posting extracts from his book to promote it, and to challenge Christians.  When Christians defended their faith, challenged him in turn, and questioned his credentials, how did he respond?  Read on.


June 9th 2005, 10:00 PM

Is there such a thing as an honest doubter?


If you either cannot acknowledge this problem because you refuse to, or because you're not bright enough to, then I'm simply done here.



June 10th 2005, 08:12 PM

Is there such a thing as an honest doubter?


JP, it was nice to talk with you.

This is a waste of my time.

Go ahead, declare victory! 'cause that's what you'll do.



June 13th 2005, 10:51 PM

Is there such a thing as an honest doubter?


I don't know why I bother here. But go ahead and continue being unfair with me.



June 17th 2005, 05:43 PM

Is there such a thing as an honest doubter?


I'm out of here. JP's response to you did it for me. I've got better things to do.



June 30th 2005, 02:50 AM

Where is God in Infinite SPACE?


Okay, I'm done here too. It seems as though your mission is to get doubters like me off of TWEB.


My wife was just diagnosed with cancer today. It was a shock to us both. We do not have health insurance--couldn't afford it (we're among that class of people). Now we face $40,000-$50,000 in medical bills without the hope of prolonging her life very far. We don't know how to get that money, but we're going through the procedures anyway. Frankly I don't give a damn about any of your arguments right now.


As insensitive as you've been so far, I'll suppose you'll have an argument for what I've just written. Save it. It'll fall of deaf ears. Silence is all you'll get from me. You, your arguments, and your God are not worth my time anymore.



Less than seven hours later ...


“Doubting John” disregards his allegedly ailing wife and posts some more:


July 1st 2005, 09:27 PM


July 1st 2005, 11:41 PM


July 1st 2005, 11:52 PM


July 1st 2005, 11:58 PM


July 2nd 2005, 12:17 AM


July 2nd 2005, 12:32 AM



Almost nine hours later ...


July 2nd 2005, 09:56 PM

Where is God in Infinite SPACE?


For your information, I was venting. Venting, J.P. That’s not an Ad Hominem argument, either. It’s venting. ...


So I’ve done some thinking and I’ve decided to change my mind. I’m back with a vengeance. Not hate, mind you. But I refuse to allow you to have your way with me by doing just what you want me to do, and that is to leave this web site. I decided to stay on TWEB as a “gadfly.” That’s what Socrates was to the people of his day, even though I’m no Socrates. Still, that’s what I’ll do. I figure if I post things here and you read them then they will have their effect on you, sooner or later. Everything we read has its effects on us—everything. That’s why the work of an apologist is dangerous work. You’ll know both sides of the case for and against Christianity, so that when a crisis comes in your life something just may snap with you like it did to me, and all of a sudden “pop” the opposite site of the fence looks better. So consider my posts as a kind of pornography. Once you look at it then you won’t be able to get it out of your mind. Once you read it, it stays there. But in order to ridicule me and/or deal with my arguments legitimately, you’ll have to look at it. So look at it. Go ahead. You’ll see.


Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control.




July 2nd 2005, 10:14 PM


July 2nd 2005, 10:22 PM


July 2nd 2005, 10:43 PM


July 2nd 2005, 10:53 PM



July 3rd 2005, 04:02 AM

Is there such a thing as an honest doubter?


Tophet, I'm back. See “Where is God in Infinite SPACE,” page 5 for why.



July 3rd 2005, 03:17 AM

Can a Historical Religion Be Believed?

Response posted by “Ave Maria”:


John, do you actually engage in any discussion? ...



July 3rd 2005, 03:57 AM

Can a Historical Religion Be Believed?

Response posted by “Salvation Found”:

Its actually kind of refreshing to be able to say anything and John will just
post more articles rather than respond.

So here is my refutation of his articles:

“Fry crack corn and I don't care
Leela crack corn and still don't care
Bender crack corn and he is great
Take that you stupid corn”

This quote from Futurama I consider to be my greatest proof against

July 3rd 2005, 02:59 PM

Can a Historical Religion Be Believed?


I will respond here and there, but why bother when most of the time all I get is blather like Futurama's and Tophet's and sometimes Holding's, and others?

Anyway, right now I'm doing a lot of posting. See the thread “Where Is God In Infinite Space?” page 5 for my explanation.


[Note to Doubting John: Futurama is a TV show.]


July 4th 2005, 08:51 PM

Does God Foreknow The Future?


JP, you asked for it, and now you've got it.
The work of an apologist is very dangerous work, so be forewarned.
If you want to continue policing this website I'm going to keep you very busy. Good luck to you and your girl Tophet.


The next day, Doubting John posts an S.O.S. at another site:


07.05.2005, 3:21pm link


Hey guys. I am debating over at, and I am being over run by Christians. My username is “Doubting John” and I've started several threads. Go to them and put your comments in. They treat me like **** for the most part.

John W. Loftus[@]



Back to TheologyWeb:


July 8th 2005, 04:55 PM

Nominate the most irritating TWEBber.


Thank You!

Thank you very much!

Do I get an award...or a trophy?

I really was just going to post a few things and get some intelligent discussions going. But when I was grossly misunderstood and personally attacked I decided to leave this site. But then I realized that there are people like Tophet on this site who's self-proclaimed mission is to irritate doubters like me so that I will leave this site. That's when I decided to do the opposite of what they wanted me to do, and I posted things with a vengeance.

I figure what I write will have it's effects on you. From my perspective you are irritated because you cannot poke holes in my argument in the thread: “The God of the Bible Doesn't Exist.” That's from my perspective, anyway. I'm not wrangling with words there. I teach ethics in college classes, and those are the problems for the whole notion that God is good.

Anyway, I nominate Tophet.

Tophet is an idiot, and in the thread “Screwballs of the month” I say why.




July 8th 2005, 09:49 PM

Former evangelical minister, now atheist


It is in fact Dan Barker. When I started the thread “Ex-Christian Testimonies” I contacted several people whom I knew and invited them on this website. Ed Babinski and I asked him to come join the fun. More will be coming. In fact, plenty of them are already here.

The way Christians have treated me on TWEB caused me to reach out to others. Perhaps soon Christians will be a minority on this website. Ha! Won't that be a hoot! Then the shoe will be on the other foot.



July 8th 2005, 11:17 PM

Nominate the most Intellectual Twebbers


Holding smacked me around?

Are you kidding?

Where? When?

I don't see any bruises.

I just didn't bother, yet. He and his side-kick Tophet are just too offensive for me to bother with. Ya see, for me it's not worth staying in a high level argument with people like that. But he has the capabilities to have a high level argument. If he wants one, and it can be kept on a civil level, then I'm in, and he knows it.

If they had been even mildly polite, I would've stayed with them. I suspect that they were purposely offensive because they didn't want to stay in the debate with me, but that's just my opinion.

But I'm also not sure on the validity of converting someone to the other side through means of intellectual arguments, anyway.

World-view change is holistic, and one never knows which part of the world-view your opponent might doubt the most if pressed. Most of the time it's a crisis.

You don't believe me, but I was just like he was, and at one time even better than he.



July 9th 2005, 03:12 AM

Submit Your Candidates for July Screwballs of the Month


So I'm back with a vengeance.

Enjoy! Or Cry if you want to.

I have only begun.


And another S.O.S. here:


Discussion and ex-Christian testimony at Theology Web
Sunday, July 10, 2005

# posted by Marlene Winell : 12:59 AM  


I received the following notice, which may be of interest to ex-Christians:


John Loftus writes: At, I've started a new thread and I'm inviting anyone who would like to share their ex-christian testimony to do so there in the midst of the Christian apologetic wolves. Theologyweb is dominated by smug Christians who think they have all of the answers to the perplexity of this life, so be forewarned. There are lots of issues to debate if you want to.

Just login with a username and start an account. Then in the search box type in: “Ex-Christian Testimonies” and you'll be there.  My username is “Doubting John,” and I have started several threads. To see them you can search for my username. You may want to tell others about this too.




Back to TheologyWeb:


July 10th 2005, 03:41 PM

Answering Doubting John's Big Three


By the way. You can now make it “Doubting John's Big Four,” and later “five”, “six” and “seven”..... I've started a new thread called: “Four Conceptual Problems With An Incarnate God.”



July 23rd 2005 , 09:28 PM

Preterism Is An Admission That Jesus And The Early Disciples Were Wrong


Let's see, you started by arguing against Preterism, and when I say that you're right and they are wrong, then you proceed to argue with me too?


I'm done here.



July 25th 2005 , 04:07 AM

Does God Foreknow The Future?


See my last thread, to be started soon, called: Parting Thoughts From Doubting John.

You will miss me----Kiss.


July 25th 2005 , 04:24 AM

Does God Foreknow The Future?

Response posted by “Captain Ochre”:


Hmmm. I dunno about that. I enjoy a stimulating and difficult debate ... and it's hard to imagine one coming from you based on your posts so far (at least the ones I've read). Maybe you were just here selling your book.

July 25, 2005, 04:39 AM

Parting Thoughts From Doubting John


It’s time for me to leave you. You didn’t think I would stay here on TWEB forever, did you?

This is not the place for any high level discussion or debate, so I am out of here. And since I posted in the Apologetics section quite a bit, I'll leave my parting wishes here as well.

It’s way too frustrating, and I have other things to do.

I’ll probably check in from time to time, but them again maybe not. I cannot say either way in advance. I may never come back. What I know is that you cannot defend Christianity, and I cannot make any headway with most of you.

I made my arguments, and that’s all I can do. But I have no reason to convert you like you do with me. You can die in your delusions if you want to, it won’t make a difference to me at all.


... But I suspect you’ll miss me, although several of you will be stupid enough to proclaim victory. “We showed him didn’t we?” Well, no you didn’t. I just don’t want to waste any more of my time here. And I said most of what I wanted to say, anyway.



July 26, 04:50 AM

Parting Thoughts From Doubting John


What you saw, Captain Orchre, is that I was online again at TWEB.


I just thought I’d check in one more time, just to see, and copy and paste some of the things we’ve discussed for my revision. I think a major bookseller just picked up my self-published book, so that’s why I’m revising. Those of you who have never invested the time and money that I have in this project will never understand that you are your own self-promoter because no one else will do it, initially. So I wrote the first review at amazon to basically tell people what was inside the book, since I’m not yet involved in the “Search Inside the Book Program.” But then some of you just won’t understand, now will you?

Some think I’m a coward. Some think I’m arrogant. Some just don’t care. ...



July 26, 2005, 06:33 AM

Parting Thoughts From Doubting John

Response posted by “Trialvironite”:


Quote: Originally posted by Doubting John


What you saw, Captain Orchre, is that I was online again at TWEB.

I just thought I’d check in one more time, just to see, and copy and paste some of the things we’ve discussed for my revision.

Excuses, excuses. You can never leave TWeb! Once you're here you're hooked for life!



“I’m done over there at theologyweb


07.28.2005, 8:07pm link


“In regards to going over to Theologyweb.....well, it’s tempting to jump in, but then again, you can’t argue rationally with people who hold an irrational belief.”

Well, that’s what I found out. I’m done over there at theologyweb. A lot of them are idiots.

John W. Loftus[@]



Two days later, back to Theology Web:

July 30, 2005, 02:08 PM

Parting Thoughts From Doubting John


Here's an addition to my book that came from some objections from some TWEBbers.



So much for “Parting Thoughts”



July 31st 2005 , 07:16 AM

Parting Thoughts From Doubting John


I don't know why I'm responding here, It's just hard not to.


Still there in 2012




Doubting John

February 13th 2012, 01:04 AM


I probably won't bother even reading The End of Infidelity because their attempted refutation of The Christian Delusion was really bad. But even if I do decide to read it I'm pretty sure I won't bother with it.



February 13th 2012, 03:07 AM


Would this 'I won't bother with it' be anything like your 'I'll never post here again'?


Doubting John

February 13th 2012, 05:17 AM


I'm pretty sure I never said that.




Be sure to visit the John W. Loftus Whining Room at!